R Lounge Sessions @ g0v summit 2014 unconference
more info: g0v summit 2014 unconf hackfoldr
#1 10:50 - 11:30 主題 Topic:
現場直播網址 live url、錄影紀錄網址 video url、照片紀錄網址 photos url
參與者 Contributors: (請簽名 sign here)
發表者 Present by: (可不填 optional)
討論內容 Discussions
How to get people interested in things that they don't? (aka How to get people angry?)
pm5: the subject developed into a thesis about making people angry because of a suggestion I have heard from a photobook collector. He was discussing about Moriyama Daido's book, which made a lot people/photographers really angry and said "this is not photography" at the time them came out. The collector concluded that when some photobook make you really angry, that might be a good indication that this is a good book and you should get it.
Muyueh: 去上海拜訪朋友時，朋友說台北人去上海，就跟去鄉下人去城市一樣，過一陣子就要來一下。這讓我很生氣。
Jimmy: When people say "Why Open Source developed application is so expensive, it should be cheaper. " I would get angry.
Muyueh: Felt angry because customer felt open source application should there shouldn't be that expensive.
Lucy: my friend is a computer scientist and hate people came to him and ask him which computer to buy. Another friend of mine told me a strategy to actually get this friend to help you buying computers. You can pick up a lousy spec, go to see that friend, and show him the spec saying, "check out this fantastic computer! I am going to buy it!" He would get really pissed off (what the heck this computer sucks) and start helping you getting a better one.
-> If you want to get advices from experts, try to propose some bad specs, and the experts will want to give you better recommendation.
LY: 我的經驗是，如果你買了很差的電腦，出了問題找我幫忙修，我沒辦法修呀，這樣我會很生氣。你可以買電腦前來找我幫忙，我幫你買到好一點的設備，比較不會出問題。如果請我幫忙但我又沒辦法可以修，這樣會讓我很生氣。
nchild: How do you extract the valuable content from things/statements that make you angry?
（自問自答）If the both sides are willing to communicate (the premise), then they need to go from where they have different opinions to where they both agree. From there, they shall see the reasoning of both sides and probably learn something that might be valuable to them.
Lucy: I get angry when someone says something definite, like "this is totally true." Because that can't be the case. I think there is almost an exception, you can't possibly certain that something is always, totally true. Like if someone says "this idea is impossible, we can show that it is impossible by past experiences that is totally true." I would get very angry.
muyueh: I get angry usually because I think "how can this value be challenged?" I would try to find the core argument/value of his view point that I disagree. That is the *something* I suspect that might be valuable to me.
Lucy: Is there always something to extract from the argument that makes you angry? Personally I believe there always are.
pm5: So if someone challenge you on this point, that there might not be anything to extract in some argument, that would provoke you very much?
Lucy: Yeah, that would be poking the foundation of me, of what I am and everything that I have built myself.
Jimmy: I was experience for my quotation for client, but client relply me "Why the open source so expensive? Wouldn't the software be free?" Then I start to feel angry.
pm5: Would it be helpful at this point to disclose this information? To tell the other that "I am really offended by what you said." And to followup with, "so if you are equally offended by what I am going to say, then we should try to stop here and start considering if there is any possibility of truthness in what the other had said."
總結 Conclusions
(海報照片 photo of your poster)
#2 11:35 - 12:15 主題 Topic:
現場直播網址 live url、錄影紀錄網址 video url、照片紀錄網址 photos url
參與者 Contributors: (請簽名 sign here)
發表者 Present by: (可不填 optional)
討論內容 Discussions
總結 Conclusions
(海報照片 photo of your poster)
#3 13:30 - 14:10 主題 Topic:
現場直播網址 live url、錄影紀錄網址 video url、照片紀錄網址 photos url
參與者 Contributors: (請簽名 sign here)
發表者 Present by: (可不填 optional)
楊孝先 nchild
討論內容 Discussions
先前專案：你被服貿了嗎?
宗旨：以非政府組織的方式提供政府的服務
英國GDS：可制定其他政府機關導入資訊系統的guideline
英國數位服務七項原則（改版後的10原則）
https://www.gov.uk/design-principles
翻譯可參考：
http://www.gcos.me/2012-04-29_uk_government_digital_service_design_principles.html
https://aservicescenario.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/gds-service-design-principles.png
HPX：翻譯松有提供翻譯
*
http://www.slideshare.net/Happy.Prototyper/government-digital-service-38339214
GDS @ wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Distribution_System
- 結合政府開放資料提供互動的服務
- 政府政策說明
TED Golden Circle WHY -> How -> What
Demo製作(?) -> 募資
符合資料開放準則
g0v入口網(?)
- 做出民眾所需的東西，不要無視使用者需求
- 重視使用者feedback，可隨需求修改guideline。
總結 Conclusions
(海報照片 photo of your poster)
先開一個 hackpad 繼續整理想法。
#4 14:15 - 14:55 主題 Topic: <progress>市長承諾</progress>
現場直播網址 live url、錄影紀錄網址 video url、照片紀錄網址 photos url
參與者 Contributors: (請簽名 sign here)
發表者 Present by: (可不填 optional)
討論內容 Discussions
總結 Conclusions
#5 15:45 - 16:25 主題 Topic:
現場直播網址 live url、錄影紀錄網址 video url、照片紀錄網址 photos url
參與者 Contributors: (請簽名 sign here)
發表者 Present by: (可不填 optional)
討論內容 Discussions
我想要/曾經在NGO團做沒有人，可是...
ddio:日日春、社會運動、政黨、20年的ngo用網路發聲得到更多的運動能量、網路行銷、內部人員網路增能
淑芳：開拓文教基金會、1996年開始、架設很多NGO第一個網站、課程、軟體捐贈(科技濃湯)、不同領域的GAP很大、
雨蒼：監督國會、
Miffy：司改會、法案研究與修法倡議、社會運動被捕時提供義務律師、陪偵小松進行中（律師專用接案APP)
LY
jimmy: 網絡行動科技 / 開放文化基金會
PM5：環資
子翔：中山學生、透過資訊的力量協助社會運動
孟勳：新鮮的肝(?)
AJ：胖卡
Ken：code4hk
信傑：有朋友在NGO服務
瑪莉歐：對太陽花學運使用資訊的方式感到好奇
Leona：文字企劃
Lin：
阿毛：彙整整個g0v的各式ngo服務計畫讓更多人知道、比如說用電影的方式呈現，觸及更多的人
粗略將參與此討論的人分兩類
- NGO/NPO嘗試接觸科技或嘗試更多可能性：
- 沃草的需求：剪片的技術人員、ivod現場直播人員、
- 司改會：多種方式將資料輸入、12/6下一次小小松、
- Q：為何從發起提案到目前進度不理想
- A：花很多時間在與外部溝通
- 參與者feedback
- 淑芳：花太多時間談需求，當需求訂出來之後，激情就冷卻了
- DDIO：像是hackfoldr這種現成的科技，其實可以拿來當作突發事件發生時的現成解決方案
- 沃草：對非資訊背景的人hackfoldr仍有門檻，寧願用現成的方案（紙本）
- pm5：其實hackfoldr最好的是有良好使用說明。之前做過以方便大家組團的mailing list服務，當大家都習慣使用這個工具之後，就成為很重要的推動工具
- 推廣上遇到的困難如何解決？對於非相關背景的組織，要推動時用top-down反而是最好的方式
- 工具導向：建立信任與了解、推薦適合工具、追蹤改變
- 文化（習慣）改變是困難的，
- 問題導向：問題明確、尋找開發志工、填坑
- 科技人嘗試接觸NGO/NPO：
總結 Conclusions
(海報照片 photo of your poster)
#6 16:30-17:10 主題 Topic:
現場直播網址 live url、錄影紀錄網址 video url、照片紀錄網址 photos url
參與者 Contributors: (請簽名 sign here)
發表者 Present by: (可不填 optional)
討論內容 Discussions
總結 Conclusions
(海報照片 photo of your poster)