g0v FAQ

IPA Cg0v社群常被詢問/誤會/好奇的FAQ

Kong Kao彙整一下，再貼到 http://g0v.tw/faq.html
Kong Kao避免用「不是」做為質問句的回應開頭，或許較可避免質問者陷入「為反對而反對」的狀態。

KONG K政治立場

KONG K這是反政府組織嗎？

g0v 只是用便於操作的方式顯示政府提供的資訊。至於這些資訊要如何解讀，這仍然是大眾自己要評斷的。

良斌 薛其實是要改進政府

HisnYi Chen其實是群眾參與政府體制改造計畫...

KONG K駭客？所以是想癱瘓政府網站嘛？

ipa chiu駭客（英語：Hacker）其實是電腦高手的意思，用武俠小說來說就是武術高手，通常在軟體圈、IT業界有正面一定貢獻的人。惡意搞破壞稱為怪客（英語：cracker）、技術高的被稱為「黑帽駭客」（英語：Black Hat），相對的為了資訊安全維護的電腦高手就被稱作「白帽駭客」（英語：White Hat）。所以、如果報章雜誌只說「駭客侵入政府網站」，其實是說「黑帽駭客正在搞破壞」、而維護政府網站安全的「白帽駭客」正在跟他們「武術切磋」中。
ipa chiu既然是黑白兩路高手正在大戰三百回合，旁邊的人看看就好。

MICHAEL_g0v裡頭囊括生產活動勢必具備三高：【技術高、行動力高、創造力高】。所以有「駭客」貢獻程式原始碼是理所當然的，增加很多改善政府網站的資訊呈現方式，加強與方便閱讀政府資料，希望民眾要多認識政府資料，做出最自己也對社會有利的判斷。

YOLANDA L現今社會已經不再是你告訴我應該相信何種真理的世代。

所有真理必須從真實資料裡重建原貌；所有原貌則來自於毫不隱瞞的g0v生產線。

ipa chiuhacker cracker傻傻分不清.....
HisnYi Chen黑客（hacker），也稱駭客。是指對計算機科學、程式設計方面具高度理解的人。(zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker )
HisnYi Chenref: http://www.angelfire.com/ok/leekawo/hacker.htm (不過這滿舊了)

IPA C開源與商業

IPA C開源專案能商業化嗎？

ipa> 程式碼是開源，各專案發起人或任何其他人可決定是否使用這些程式碼轉為商業化模式。

開源的成果似乎不夠成熟？e.g. 「某公司希望要求產品成熟度，所以不要開源...」

ipa chiu常有類似片面印象的判斷，請大家多丟資料、寫共筆來釐清事實。

要如何成為 g0v 專案？需要開源嗎？

不開源的資料可以來g0v黑客松提案嗎？

公開資料、開放資料與open source 的關係？

KONG K社群發展

IPA Cg0v 有 roadmap 嗎？(log)

Amos YangI was that crazy guy who asked this question :) In my opinion, given the current dire situation, it's time for g0v.tw to consider a new paradigm as the current paradigm operates under one false assumption - there is plenty of time to iterate. It's not to say g0v.tw needs to adopt any radical changes to its everyday operations; however, g0v.tw's collective zerg-y hivemind / consensus needs to realize one thing: g0v.tw and Taiwan needs allies, especially allies from the west.

Amos Yang"Allies" are people who would respond to g0v.tw's and Taiwan's distress calls and stand with you. g0v.tw is in an extremely unique position as it has the assets that can be exported in exchange of foreign allies' favors. People would pay attention to well-polished solutions and ignore products; hence the mentality needs to shift from "Don't like it? Fork it!" to actually owning up to the problem and contribute towards one common goal: to win over allies. Again, if there were abundant time, the OSS/grassroot approach would have made a lot of sense; however, time is a luxury we don't have.
Audrey TangI'm glad you're volunteering to liaison the community's products and exports! If time pressure and scarcity of luxury resources motivates you, a project around those ideas would certainly gather like-minded people. (Personally, time pressure and scarcity de-motivates me, but I understand they could be strong motivating factors.)
Amos YangI know for sure that my inaction would come back and haunt me for the rest of my life -- that's what motivates me -- I don't want to be haunted by myself :D Really happy to see g0v.tw is connecting with this "Poplus" thing. I will need to read up on it.

Amos YangI understand that a great portion of g0v.tw's strength comes from its loosely-defined structure -- it gave g0v.tw agility and the ability to adapt; however, without a clear roadmap, discipline, and vision, over time that agility will turn into addiction and will backfire, big time. I understand it is fun to be able to set your own priorities and enjoy unleashing your creativity without any boundary; however, we all know the fact that this happy paradigm originated from the west -- where real wars have ended more than 50 years ago. I am not saying we should be completely giving up on climbing Maslow's hierarchy of needs and ascend to a higher path, but, in reality, war is coming home. You just can't fight a war this way.
Audrey TangI fully agree that WWII style "Kampf" is not the forte of Satyagraha practitioners, and that g0v.tw currently have more experience on disaster relief projects than with militant us-vs-them projects.
Audrey TangYou're welcome to start one though!
Amos Yang:) I think we are on the same page. However, just to clarify - when I said "You can't fight a war this way" I didn't mean that g0v.tw needs to do anything radical at all like what The Anonymous would do. What I meant is that instead of one-shot projects/products, it's time to produce well-polished solutions which you can tag the g0v.tw logo on. I am local to Irvine, CA and I just spoke to a few local folks today, and it seems there are vast opportunities to bring open-data solutions here, and win over potential (political) allies.

Amos YangAnyhow, to be honest, I am not even sure this is the right place to give a speech like that XD but at least I tried to get the message across. I will do what I could to help (and in fact "PTT vNext" does not even align with the goal of "win over foreign allies") by surveying existing g0v.tw projects and identify applications that may contribute the the grand goal.
Audrey TangThat would be much appreciated.
Amos Yang:)

g0v 宣言/ g0v.asia 看起來很空泛耶（ pointless ）耶 (log)，這樣行得通嗎？

it's intentionally pointless so different people can make their own point in the same space, with common grounds. i guess that's sort of the point.(by clkao)

ipa chiuI made that "pointless" comment, and it looks like the context of that conversation is not entirely captured here, so, to clarify:
Amos Yang- The whole point of having g0v.asia, I presume, is to raise people's awareness.
Amos Yang- No one wants to read a wall of text -- even fund prospectuses -- simply no one cares.
ipa chiu-No one cares about "completed products", but people will pay attention to "well-polished, readily-available solutions".
Amos YangMost of g0v.asia's target audience can't understand a word of Chinese.
Amos YangThe juiciest part, "the projects", listed on g0v.asia is all written in Chinese.
ipa chiug0v/g0v.tw#119 you're welcome to help i18n! here's the issue!
ipa chiuHence, in its current form, having g0v.asia is pointless. In other words, my comment had nothing to do with OSS/grassroot philosophy; it was the lack of vision and discipline that bothered me.

Amos YangI fully understand g0v.tw's slogan: 「不要問為什麼沒有人作這個？先承認你就是『沒有人』」, the "Make it happen yourself if you really want it that badly" mindset. I reckon that it's logical, rational, practical, and reasonable; however, it is losing sights of the bigger picture -- this is a race against time, and time is a luxury Taiwan does not have. That's was the reason why I was trying to find out about g0v.tw's roadmap -- I see a group of very talented individuals producing great works yet the group as a whole is disarrayed. It seems to me that the consensus / general mentality still revolves around "Since people are volunteering therefore people get to set their own priorities." Again, I fully understand and reckon that it's logical, rational, practical, and reasonable to think that way. However, the hidden message behind this type of mentality reflects the conservative, risk-wary culture.
ipa chiug0v是平台是生態，且積極演化中，任何人都可是加速的因素，也隨時歡迎建立自己認同的社群（運用此地的所有資源）。但通常新參者都需要一些時間了解這一大團看似混亂的東西，最後選擇助力、產出新的型態，當然也可能會離開。目前社群演化的型態有公司、法人，但社群本身會維持這種大亂鬥形式維持各種可能性。
ipa chiuAmos Yang 你還是趕快去弄 ptt vnext吧～ there're too many different hidden messages behind various participants of g0v community. XD
Amos Yangg0v.tw is in an extremely unique position to help Taiwan win over allies; I was certainly relieved a bit when I read about it on clkao's blog that there has been some work going on, collaborating with other open-gov-data groups
ipa chiug0v/g0v.tw#119 i'd be very glad if you can help solving this issue :P
Amos Yangin my honest opinion, that's the wrong issue to fix -- people don't care about products; they care about readily-available solutions.
ipa chiugreat! open the right issue here: https://github.com/g0v/g0v.tw/issues/new
ipa chiu(we need that i18n issue fixed anyway.....)
Amos Yangand that's exactly why the lack of vision worries me :(
ipa chiudon't worry, just start action, if you're right, ppl will follow. that's how it works for now.
Amos YangYes, I understand it's not easy to think in an entirely different paradigm
ipa chiuYou are always welcome to build a different paradigm :)
Amos YangYes, I understand the "Want to do it a different way? Fork it!" philosophy; Behind that philosophy, you would have to recognize the context -- "evolution" worked out great because it had oceans of time to iterate. I am also well-versed in the lean-startup, fail-fast philosophy. I understand the ideology g0v.tw holds dear, and for the record g0v.tw is doing an awesome job. All I am saying is, given the current (dire) situation, it is time to consider to adopt a new paradigm and tune it up another notch.
ipa chiu期待 ptt vnext 用新模式成為新的典範！社群會彼此學習，你也可以成為新典範的起點 :)
Amos Yangbtw, is there anyone in g0v.tw running scrum and have been working as PM (project manager) / PUM (product unit manager)?
ipa chiumaybe you can ask on irc....(/me not geek guy)
Amos Yangk, thx
ipa chiuagain, you're always welcome to open an issue for g0v.tw site :) https://github.com/g0v/g0v.tw/issues/new XDDD
Amos Yangis there a PM / owner for http://g0v.tw/ ? I'd be interested to know his/her vision & priorities for the site.
Audrey TangCurrently there's no single PM / owner for https://github.com/g0v/g0v.tw — there's a bunch of committers who'd gladly merge in your pull requests; after a few pull requests, a new contributor will likely get commit bits to save everybody some work.

g0v 去中心化、多核心發展速度不夠快，可以快一點嗎？（要如何加速？）

AMOS Y "Is g0v.tw's current speed sustainable? What's the actual cost and risk behind these agility-oriented tactics?"

ipa chiuIt's like, you can strip a lot of parts off a car to make it go faster; yet beyond a certain point it becomes impractical to do so just so that you can make the car go ever faster.

AUDREY TThe book Swarmwise recommended by A-Tsioh presents a nice cost-risk analysis.

The current speed — defined as "it's done when it's done" — is, by definition, sustainable. :-)

Amos Yangdidn't have the time to finish the whole book, so I did a bit hack reading; the word "time" showed up 150 times, speed, 19, velocity, 0, roadmap/road map, 0, and vision, 24. I read all those pages and in addition finished "Chapter 4. Control The Vision, But Never The Message". I can understand what this dude is proposing and it makes sense; however, some of his text, when taken literal and without enough practical experiences, could be quite misleading. For example, he was trying to install the mind set of "leading by example and actions" and "be wary of the backseat driver culture." Under certain contexts, he's perfectly correct. However, it pushes people away from thinking about both tactical and strategical goals (because tactical goals are much smaller and easier to manage, which reinforces the lead by action + agility philosophy). In the long run, the swarm will become addicted to agility and take an unhealthy dependency on a posteriori learning. Given enough time, the swarm, after countless iterations, will probably find a way out. i.e. Some elites will eventually emerge and lead the swarm to its next evolutionary form. But, again, this works under the presumption that there is ample time; and (I probably missed it since I didn't actually finish the whole book) the Swarmwise book didn't seem to discuss how swarm could effectively race against time.
Amos Yang

IPA Cfacebook後勤社團可以改為不公開嗎？

（原討論串）

g0v 的精神就是 open source，提倡 open data，各溝通平台（irc, fb, googlegroups）都以開放透明的方式討論，需要討論任何私密的話題可以另組社團或者使用聊天室。

KONG K有打算登記立案為社會團體或法人嗎？

IPA C0r9.tw 開放文化基金會進行中。

VENEV對組織政黨或生成政策的態度是？

參考 g0v 宣言：「g0v.tw 無黨無派、無錢通買菜，是草根集結的公民運動」，故無成立政黨的規劃。

社群內曾就這點進行討論，請參考 g0v x politics: 協作社群～同志政黨光譜討論

KONG K有（法律上的）負責人嗎？

AUDREY T沒有，每個人為自己負責。

KONG K宅宅集合體？

Kong Kao好想直接寫「小心被有律師身分的成員控告公然侮辱或誹謗」，但這樣等於是在承認「宅宅」是不名譽的形容詞或身分。
caasi Huang先別提 宅宅 了，有聽過岡田斗司夫嗎？

IPA C目前黑客松參與者的資訊工程背景人數大約是三～四成（hackath7n 為 40人，hackath8n 為 30+人），其他參與者有法律、設計、插畫、議題、影像、文字等等，非資訊背景的比例已大幅提升。其中平面/UI 設計與議題類增加迅速，也多能找到專案立即參與。

良斌 薛g0v 跟 Code for Tomorrow 的關係是？

目前沒有關係。

ET B一句話版：g0v 和 CfT 是兩個獨立的社群，發起緣由、組織方式和核心精神都不同，只因為碰巧同時出現在 open data 領域，所以常被相提並論。

Yolanda Liu 續問：那以後會有關係嗎?
ipa chiu這類問題通常適合在廟裡詢問。++
ET Blue此處原本內容已移動至：開幹開團到開源：前往 g0v 的奇幻旅程（個人 blog 文草稿）

KONG K資料來源可靠度

KONG K從哪裡抓的？如何驗證正確性？

Kong Kao恐怕要請各專案以更明顯的方式列出資料來源，並區分顯示的是「抓到的資料」或是該專案依據抓到的資料算出的結果。

Garbage in, garbage out

「如果政府給的是錯誤的資料，那你們做出來的統計根本一點意義也沒有。」

離譜的統計結果通常來自錯誤的統計方式或錯誤的原始資料。「發現資料有問題」這件事就有很大的意義－－特別是政府提供錯誤或是相矛盾的資料之時，我們可以藉以審視中間是不是有弊案產生。

Kong Kao似乎有前輩提過會計法烏龍並不是立法院第一次拿舊版本開讀會？

g0v 不是要幫政府提供的資料背書，而是希望創建監督政府的工具，藉由方便或有趣的操作方式，增進大眾對於政府資訊的關注。

Kong Kao需要一些例子，【路見不平】專案或許能讓大眾較有認同感？
Yung Lin Chen對一般人來說 方便和有趣是很大的重點

資料或程式的更新頻率

Kong Kao各專案各自為政？

ET B量化的統計無法呈現質性的資料

KONG K如何抓資料

KONG K寫程式下載別人的網站應該不算是正常使用吧？

刑法§360妨害電腦使用罪禁止的是「無故」干擾他人電腦且「致生損害於公眾或他人」。 g0v 致力於使用不會造成伺服器端負荷的抓取方式。

追根究柢，g0v 諸多專案均是起因於政府網站作的差強人意。

Kong Kao這裡應該塞一些推廣 open data 的論述
Yung Lin Chen像是實價登錄網站

政府網站就算了，怎麼可以用程式抓民間公司的網站？

Kong Kao像是 newsdiff …
Kong Kao這個有點麻煩，因為民間公司的網站有流量費的問題。
Pofeng Lee其實單純新聞呈現不受著作權法保護
Pofeng Leeref: http://cctr.nou.edu.tw/ipr/base2.html
Pofeng Lee"原則上，符合前述四要件即為我國著作權法所保護的著作，但基於便利公眾使用及資訊流通等公益考量，立法者又另以著作權法第9條將下列原屬符合要件的作品排除於著作權保護範圍之外：
Pofeng Lee1.憲法、法律、命令或公文。此處的公文包括公務員於職務上草擬之文告、講稿、新聞稿及其他文書。
Pofeng Lee2.中央或地方機關就前款憲法、法律、命令或公文等著作所作成的翻譯物或編輯物。
Pofeng Lee3.標語及通用的符號、名詞、公式、數表、表格、簿冊或時曆。
Pofeng Lee4.單純為傳達事實之新聞報導所作成的語文著作。
Pofeng Lee5.依法令舉行的各類考試試題及其備用試題。"

KONG K著作權

KONG K這樣沒有侵害政府網站的著作權嗎？

NCHILD請參考著作權法這一條，合理範圍內可以重製、公開播送或公開傳輸。

KONG K現行法律實務確實認為政府網站的部分資訊亦受著作權法保護，但我們要問：為什麼用納稅錢做出來的著作，即使標註「資料來自政府」，卻仍不能被納稅人善加利用？

Kong Kao痾，這是 Kong Kao 在 COSCUP 2013 聽 KNY 提到的，不確定 g0v 的大家是否認同。

這樣沒有侵害民間公司的著作權嗎？

Kong Kao似乎需要看個案…

NCHILD先確定標的有受著作權法保障，再依個案來認定。

KONG K成果呈現

KONG K有些東西很不好用，做好了再放出來嘛

Kong Kao也許各專案於外部公測階段，也應該標上 alpha 或 beta
ipa chiualpha or beta+1
HisnYi Chenpatch welcome......
ipa chiu請 end user/潛在開發者直接到 github加 issue?（clkao建議，SOP需再討論?）
lanfongithub 對英文/電腦能力不好的人可能有點使用上的障礙...
Michael_Li文案：先求有再求好，開放出來之後，有能力的的就會提建議改進，之後的版本不就有機會比較接近使用者需求。再說，程式原始碼也有公開在 GitHub 中，更能夠讓高手製造出更厲害的東西出來～～說不定是正在看文章的您。

KIRBY W有些專案除了做出來給民眾使用以外, 也有「示範」或「展現創意」的意味在, 也因此與其把東西花很多時間弄得很完整後上線, 不如在有概念雛形時就先釋出, 一來刺激其他民眾 / 政府單位對於專案變化性的想像, 二來也可以更早得到各方的回饋及協助.

比方說立法院專案, 像是「國會大代誌」, 「立委投票指南」, 「立院影城」, 都算是在相對早期的時間點就釋出, 但也因此我們已經開始接觸到立法院相關單位與其互動, 甚至到立院分享我們對國會資料開放的建議與看法了.

KONG K參加

Kong Kao可以把〈我是... 如何參與黑客松〉改成「如果你是 XXX ，我們需要你做 YYY 」也放在這。

IPA C運作資金來源？（這是演講被問次數第一名）

大型黑客松支出只有食物餐點，由小額募款支付。中小型黑客松由參與者自由捐款或分攤。基本原則是，各活動由發起人決定資金運作模式。

如果沒有電腦、手機，是不是沒辦法參加？要怎麼克服？

ipa chiu在高中演講被問到

社群的確大部分需要靠網路溝通，可以先把概念寫清楚，用紙筆畫概念圖、計畫雛形，使用公共資源進行協作。也可以學習推坑技能，讓其他參與者去作 XD

KONG K我明明是資工系畢業的，可是都看不懂你們說的技術術語

Kong Kao哭哭，就我嘛
Johnny Sung＋1
Michael_Li那就當作課後輔導，來這裡學習真正的專題製作，增加實務經驗。

ET B你們這樣做有問題，可以多參考一些資料，有機會我下次分享

歡迎來到網路時代，不用等下次，現在就可以上 hackpad 分享，直接開個專案吧

KIRBY W你們是菁英，沒辦法想像弱勢者的問題，也沒辦法替其他族群解決問題

Kirby Wu去文化元年被問到的問題

g0v 的核心概念就是群眾參與，這並不限於高知識份子，重點在於任何人碰到了問題，在漫長等待政府幫我們處理之前是否能自己先做點什麼。農家子弟了解農家的問題，原住民子弟了解原住民的問題，我們希望每個人都能主動提出問題，思考解決方案，然後親自動手去做。

再者，即便是參加 g0v 活動的人，也來自各樣的原生家庭或是各樣的族群。例如福利請聽，便是聽障者自身在解決自己碰到的問題。大家在解決自己身邊的問題之餘，也樂於散播我們的理念，讓更多的人能投入其中。

有些人(各領域的專家)想幫忙，但無法輕易的學會你們的系統，也不想了解

Kirby Wu去文化元年被問到的問題
Kirby Wu至少可以來參加黑客松?
ipa chiu不想了解.....就等到想的時候再來也不錯

IPA C幫忙釐清問題，找資料，或嘗試設想需求、以及解決問題的途徑，都是很好的參與，例如「想要容易地搜尋福利法規」（福利請聽專案）、「想要更多流浪動物被領養」（petneed.me），都是很好的切入點。把想法分享出來，刺激更多其他人動手作，用接力的方式發展新的工具。

KEYBOARD C不使用網路的人就算瞭解問題、有解決方案也沒辦法發言

IPA C大家可以參與將網路實體串連起來的團體，例如小蜜蜂戰鬥隊，或發起類似專案。

KONG K專案

KIRBY W資料新聞學的題材該從哪裡來？

Kirby Wu去臺大新聞所分享時被問的問題
Kong Kao多涉獵不同族群的議題, 親身參與他們的活動, 接近各樣的人群
Kirby Wu從新聞挖掘新聞

你們做的 xx , 這個 oo, 所以沒有用啦！

ipa chiu類似句型有：「很難啊」「要先想辦法控制政府才有可能拿到資料」「修法是修不動的」

1. 發起專案除了實用以外，也有啟發創新的用意在，所以資料及程式碼都開源，讓任何人都可以參與，歡迎你提供 oo 的解決方案，更歡迎你參與其中一同改進。
2. 無用論自我違背，例如：「你的『所以沒有用啦』這個批評沒有建設性，所以沒有用啦！」所以在指教任何專案沒有用的同時，這個指教也是沒有用的。請提出具建設性的建議，更希望你能捲起袖子來弄髒雙手。

POFENG L《零語》

POFENG L( inspired by this FB thread )

Finjon Kiang 從實做中找尋靠近自己想法的方式。

唐宗浩 「工具可以留在G∅V 邀人開發，內容則搬出去自己負責」是對各方的組織和個人，最好的定位 。

李柏鋒 請容我修改一下「工具與內容可以留在G∅V 邀人開發協作，立場則搬出去自己負責」

唐鳳 主要原因是，工具可以開源而衍生共用，內容可CC而衍生共用，但立場難以衍生共用。

李柏鋒 比如說G∅V 整理的立委通訊錄大家都可以用，123.g0v.today 的原始碼則無論贊成服貿或反對服貿都可以用。但，如果有人開發了一個 app, 其原始碼授權限制反對服貿立場的人才能使用的話，可能不符 Open Source Initiative 與G∅V 的風格。

Angel Su : "這群工程師都是對開放原始碼（Open Source）有共同信念的人，而他們的聚集也是相信這樣的信念，他們沒有特定的Leader、只有協調者，只要你想法好、肯做事，自然就會有跟隨者，你可能有時是協調者、有時是跟隨者，一切但看你願意付出多少時間與心力，你可以隨時離開，你可以衡量自己做得事情重不重要、是否要堅持。"

( 摘自: http://on.fb.me/1gJVsZ3 )